Posts by Doug Mason

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

Doug Mason

This is my uninformed guess at the reason these chronology articles appeared. Just a guess, nothing more.

Mr Furuli has developed a following among many Witnesses, almost a personality cult. As the saying goes, if you tell a lie often enough and loudly enough, it becomes truth (that's how the WTS system works, anyway).

Over time, some of these fully convinced Furuli adherents have made it into areas where they were able to wield their influence on the Writers. At some stage, Furuli would have become involved.

I have a feeling that the November issue was delayed by a few days. If that is correct, this suggests difficulties over certain details. It will be interesting to be able to know the internal discussions, who the dissenters are and what they had to say. I would not be surprised if some of the questions raised in this Forum were also raised internally, such as "Why bring up the subject?"

Just wild guesses. Nothing more.

Doug

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

Doug Mason

Alleymom,

I hope you do not object, but I plan to include your excellent diagram (your post Sept 3 "A Quick Rebuttal"), suitably credited to you, in my Critique of the article in the October Watchtower.

If all goes according to plan, I will make my Critique available in a day or two. I will start a new thread when I do.

Doug

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

Doug Mason

The articles on “When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?” gloss over key omissions:

(1) Neither article provides any evidence that proves Jews returned to the temple site at Jerusalem in 537 BCE. The reason is that they cannot; no one knows the year, although many hazard a guess. But for the WTS it is crucial.

(2) Neither article provides a Biblical statement that explicitly states this event marked the conclusion of the Seventy Years.

(3) Neither article provides a Biblical statement that explicitly states which event marked the commencement of the Seventy Years. The articles cannot, for the Bible writers were not interested enough to point to any specific event.

(4) Although the WTS starts the Seventy Years with the entry of the murderous Jews into Egypt, the WTS is incapable of proving that this happened in the same year that Jerusalem was destroyed. The Bible writer only mentioned the Jews’ key religious month of Tishri, without identifying the year. Everything that happened between the destruction of Jerusalem and the Jews’ entry into Egypt took much longer than two months. The WTS’s Seventy Years does not start with the destruction of Jerusalem.

Doug

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

Doug Mason

Alleymom,

I hope you do not mind, I have put your response from John Steele on my web site:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Response_from_John_Steele.pdf

Doug

322

WT Nov. 1, 2011 (public) - When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed - Part 2

by AnnOMaly in

out now.. yes, yes, yessssss!

on p. 26-27 they talk about how the lunar positions on vat 4956 fit 588/7 bce!!!.

"clearly, much of the astronomical data in vat 4956 fits the year 588 b.c.e.

Doug Mason

The Watchtower , November 1, 2011, page 22 states:

“The Bible says that the Jewish captives were to be exiled in Babylon ‘until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORDspoken by Jeremiah.’

“When were they released? In ‘the first [regnal] year of Cyrus king of Persia.’ (2 Chronicles 36:21, 22, New International Version) Biblical and secular history agree that this exile in Babylon ended after Cyrus conquered Babylon and freed the Jews, who returned to Jerusalem in 537 B.C.E. Since the Bible explicitly says that the exile lasted for 70 years, it must have begun in 607 B.C.E.”

-----------

2 Chronicles in the NIV actually states:

“The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah.

“In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing: ”.

-----------

So the Bible does not say, as the article falsely asserts, “the Jewish captives were to be exiled in Babylon” . The Bible’s words actually are: “all the time of its desolation it rested ”.

The NIV says that the rest ended when the seventy years ended, but it does not say that the “rest” lasted for seventy years, only that the land’s rest ended at the same time that the seventy years ended.

The seventy years ended when Cyrus dethroned the Babylonian kingdom. The seventy years was a period of servitude by several nations to Babylon, so their servitude ended when Babylon no longer reigned as the region’s super power. The WTS confuses the issue by associating the Seventy Years with the destruction of Jerusalem.

It is impossible for anyone, including the WTS, to show which year the first Jews returned. The article simply makes a bald unsubstantiated assertion that it happened in 537 BCE. They need another article where they prove that date.

The Bible does NOT say the exile lasted for 70 years. Jeremiah, who is the source, very clearly states that the 70 years was a period of servitude by several nations to the region’s super power, without any need for a destruction of any city, including Jerusalem.

Nowhere does the Bible state: “this is the moment that the Seventy Years started”. Nor does the Bible state: “this is the moment that the Seventy Years ended”. The Bible writers were not concerned.

The WTS starts the period with the entry into Egypt by the murderers of Gedaliah, saying that the WTS requires the land to be devoid of inhabitants. However, the WTS does not end the period with the entry of people from Babylon. Instead, it waits until they have returned to their respective towns, settled down, and then walked all the way to Jerusalem, set up an altar and dedicated it.

Doug

5

What is SIN?

by Fernando in

once again i tried to post a brief reply on another thread, but i started sharing some of my exit story, and it turned into a thesis, again... darn.... it seemed better to spare the thread and start a new topic.... .

when jesus was on earth the only sins he was preoccupied with and constantly spoke against were religious sins (matt 15 and 23 esp v15).. religionists however to hide their sins are preoccupied with and constantly speak against sexual sins plus a whole laundry list of do's and don'ts.

their legalism and moralism actually lead them away from god and his "plan of salvation" as embodied in the "good news".. this is why governing body member raymond franz left religion/ists.

Doug Mason

Religions create Sin as the problem (playing on guilt, conscience, fate after death, self-doubt, etc.), and then they say "voila!" we have the solution.

Imagine the sense of power the religious leaders feel when they are able to manipulate the minds and behaviour of millions.

Let go! Be free!

Doug

11

Is the term, "Elder", "Pioneer", Publisher", scriptural?

by Quarterback in

elder?.

pioneer?.

publisher?.

Doug Mason

When Paul was alive and writing, they were all expecting the imminent return of Jesus. Because of that, they had no idea of the need for organised structure; Paul even spoke disparagingly of the Jerusalem Christians and their Apostle leaders.

By the end of the first century (100 CE/AD) the initial expectation was giving way to theorising and rationalising, so we see those writers (Paul died about 61 CE) having a different focus, and a need to reason against the innumerable "heresies" coming into play.

Hence those NT writings from that time reflect the changed internal politics, as well as seeing a need for structure, or at least a hierarchy.

The writings from that period, such as Acts, Colossians, Ephesians, especially 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus, reflect that later period. (Acts is an historical reinvention).

I often wonder if JWs have read the complete verse at Acts 5:42. I would be interested to see someone expand on every phrase in that verse -- especially when it says what they were saying house-to-house and in the temple courts.

I also wonder whether JW's realise that the word "Witness" at Isa 43:10 (written during the Babylonian Captivity) means that those people had seen (witnessed) YHWH yet because they had not responded accordingly, YHWH was destroying them (read chapters 43 and 44 to see the context).

Doug

14

1909 Comments right on about Chronology in many ways

by itsibitsybrainbutbigenoughtosmellarat in

a little hard to read, but worth the trouble, i think.

i like his comments about the whole issue of diliberation is unnecessary, when the prophecy of the last days is all required for bible students to understand or look for..

Doug Mason

Sorry Guys, but my browser was unable to see anything.

CTR sent his trusted Hennings (who had married the "infamous" Rose Ball) to set up the organisation in Australia. You will see Henninges' name in earlier Watchtower magazines; I think he was the Secretary or maybe the Treasurer (it's a while since I looked).

The Henninges defected in 1909, setting up their own organisation, which still has a small membership here in Melbourne. Their defection is reflected in the reports (or lack of) in the Watchtower magazine for that year.

As the name indicates, the differences were related to the covenant.

Several of Henninges books are held at the State Library of Victoria, here in Melbourne.

A while ago, I took photos of their grave site at a local cemetery.

Doug

60

Society tells us to stop asking questions...

by cedars in

i was just glancing at the back of the october 15th watchtower and the questions from readers.

the question under discussion is "what should i do when i have a question about something i read in the bible or when i need advice about a personal problem?".

the article goes on to discuss how we should consult the watch tower publications index among the many 'tools' that have been provided by the faithful and discreet slave whenever we have a question that is not directly discussed in the publications.. one statement really caught my eye, because it's the first time i've ever seen the society actually dissuade people from writing in with questions.

Doug Mason

Hi Billy,

They might not want questions, but they are going to get them from me!

My retort to their recent (October) farce is not too far off.

Doug